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[slimjim]

Darn good post honda!

[fireboss]

Yes the exchanger is flowing in the opposite directions and i have a 007 flowing into the boiler  drain and out the relife valve and back to the exchanger and its flowing 24\7  and in the summer I have it tied in to my aquastat ! I went from a 40 plate to a hundred plate and didn't gain anything!  The only thing left is a bigger pump! I don't have a problem till it gets down close to 0 !

[hondaracer2oo4]

Thanks Richard

Fireboss, could you measure your temps on the indoor boiler side for us? I think that the problem may be the fact that you are using the boiler drain and relief valve as the locations for the tie in. What size is that, 1 inch or 3/4 inch? You aren't allowing the flow on the indoor boiler side to exchange the BTU's because of the slow flow through that restriction possibly. You aren't having a problem at higher outdoor temps because you don't need the extra btus to keep up, but when the temp drops outside and you need them you obviously are just exceeding the amount of BTU's being exchanged over.

[willieG]

my  question would be how many gallons of reserve does the indoor boiler have? I am going to guess there is not enough reserve water to hold the btu's needed for an extended run time(cold day) of the indoor boiler.

I am also going to guess the indoor boiler is moving more water due to less head with the same 007 pump so it will be rising less than the 7 degrees that the OWB is giving up.
another factor is heat exchanging between the fluids will be less the closer the two fluids are in temp

more gpm from the OWB would help ( I think) but I don't know to what extent
a larger reserve for the boiler to draw from would hold more btu for the next burn and it could draw more btu from the OWB for storage

unless (like it has been said) that your indoor boiler water is moving way to slow due to restrictions, I think your boiler may have a very small reserve?

if you are losing 7 degrees and we guessed your 007 is moving 6 gpm that would be about 25000 btu per hour (if you have the storage  to accept it)  if you need more and your system is working as it should you will need to increase the gpm from the OWB in order to (hopefully) push more btu into the indoor boiler water

[RSI]

The outlet of the OWB side of the Plate can't be lower than the outlet of the indoor side of the plate. That is why I suggested the larger pump.

Do you still have the 40 plate? If so, put it back where it was and move the 100 plate in series with the return line into the indoor boiler. I think you will get enough heat. Just plumb the outdoor side in series with the 100 plate first.

I think what is happening is that a large portion of the water is just circulating through the indoor boiler and you are only heating maybe half of what gets sent to the zones.

[mlappin]

The outlet of the OWB side of the Plate can't be lower than the outlet of the indoor side of the plate. That is why I suggested the larger pump.

To clarify for the rest of the members, why is that exactly in not too overly technical terms?

[slimjim]

I'll put money on it that Honda nailed it, the relief valve and drain fittings are going to be 3/4 inch black iron, very easy way to install EXCEPT if you need to move a lot of water, 4-5 gallons of flow per minute through those fittings would be awesome and that's not enough to heat your home, Please post a picture of your near boiler plumbing so we can have a look and discuss the best place to tag the boiler plumbing would be and why.

[fireboss]

I think your right slim I will check and get back to you!

[slimjim]

It wasn't me that picked up on it, the credit for this one goes to Honda!
I see a lot of boilers tagged in this very way, they are typically installed the cheapest and easiest way possible, they work OK in the warmer climates or with small loads but when the demand is there they fall on their face, this type of hookup is what you get when the dealer tells you it can be installed for $1000 in  order to sell the boiler, it works, just not real good!

[hondaracer2oo4]

I can't take all the credit here, I picked up that little nugget from Slimjim when he and I talked about how to tie my system together. Someone had suggested that using those ports was an easy way to hook the system up but Slimjim steered me away from that because of what he mentioned. Possibly an assist and a goal scored here. Let us know fireboss.

[fireboss]

Sorry guys no goal! Lol my bad info! I have a tee befor the boiler drain so 1in going in the bottom and out the top of the oil burner  1 1\4 t back to the exchanger, and a 007  running constantly. And more temp info. Leaveing the wood boiler this morning at 187 and then into plate exchanger at same temp 187 and back into wood boiler at 180, and inside oil burner at 170 with 2 out of 3 zones running and out side temp 31. I took pics this am but not sure how to put up on here so I will take it to work with me and ask our geek to help me post them! And thanks again for all help

[slimjim]

We have got to see a picture, 1 inch black iron is still to small but I would be very surprised if it's 1 inch as typically boiler drain ports on oil boilers are 3/4

[fireboss]

Sorry slim we made a loop , took  1" copper out of  bootom of plate exchanger then into 007, then about 12", then  a check  valve, then another 8", then a tee into the bottom of the boiler, and  the boiler drain come out the tee. Then it come our the top of oil burner( not the relief valve) tee off back into plate exchanger! Sorry for no pics the geek lol  didn't come to work today ! Monday blues  lol! Is there an easy way to put pics up? Iam pretty clueless with these computers!

[Sloppy_Snood]

Sorry for no pics the geek lol  didn't come to work today ! Monday blues  lol! Is there an easy way to put pics up? I am pretty clueless with these computers!

Not sure how computer savvy you are or aren't but there is a picture posting "How To" in the Testing forum at the bottom of the OWFI.com home page.

LINK:  A "How To" for Posting Pictures (Click Here)

[hondaracer2oo4]

Your problem is on the oil boiler side, not the owb side. I am now thinking that when you have 3 zones calling for heat at the same time when it is cold out that your little 007 can't keep up with 3 returning zones all returning cold water and then trying to send out to those 3 zones again 180 water. Your oil boiler is to small to act as a buffer tank with that small pump. You need to be able to meet the demands of the 3 zones returning cold water to the flat plate. 1 007 trying to keep up with 3 007s all returning cold water doesn't work. I would get a pump that will be able to keep up with all three 007s. I might also think about running that pump only when one or more zones is calling for heat, no real need other wise since the boiler isn't big enough to buffer.