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[martyinmi]

We are on Consumers Energy where I live in Michigan.

Here's how bad they let us have it.

Electric Power Supply Charges:
   Energy           851@.072567     $61.75
   PSCR             851@.001670         1.42
   Renewable Energy                       2.50

Electric Delivery Charges:
   System Access                                       6.00
   Distribution               851@.034482       29.34
   Energy Optimization  851@.001982        1.69
   Securitization            851@.001250       1.06
   Securitization Tax      851@.000597        .51

Sales Tax                                               4.17

Total                                                    $108.44

I have no idea what PSCR or Securitization even is.

   Marty


 

[kjw58]

I feel your pain Marty, I to live in mich and have consumers energy,  You might as well bend over and grab your ankles, and it is one of the worst  grids for power outages.  Seems like every time a cloud goes over we lose power!   

[tulenutn2o]

It can be a nice clear, calm day here and the power will go out.

[gspren]

I feel your pain Marty, I to live in mich and have consumers energy,  You might as well bend over and grab your ankles, and it is one of the worst  grids for power outages.  Seems like every time a cloud goes over we lose power!   

 The electric grid in most parts of the country is getting older and seeing less maintenance, it will probably get worse before it gets better. I posed a question about standby gennys on the general discussion board.
Gary

[dirtryder]

I checked my hot tub amperage draw last night. I have a shell hx to heat my tub with my wood boiler. It is a 220 volt hook up.....2  110volt feeds. It has a small circulater pump that runs 24/7. I have a on-off-on 40amp switch to change from electric heat to wood. On wood, the switched (from thermostat on tub setting)  110 leg powers a 24 volt transformer to open 3 way taco valve. On electric, tub functions normally.
Here's what I came up with

Heating with OWB:
                                      line 1                 line 2
heater off                 1.14 amps          .04  amps
heater on                 1.65 amps          .04 amps

heating with electric:
                                      line 1                 line 2
heater off                  1.67 amps          .04 amps
heater on                  1.67  amps         24.1 amps

I guess to figure savings I would need to know how many hours a day the tub is heating and all that stuff.......haven't run the tub during the winter without the OWB to compare.......and I don't really want to

OK, so I don't know what it means as far as $'s saved a month, but it must be something.....right? I feel like I'm saving money I'm going to keep the new boiler going this summer for hot tub and DHW to see how easy it will be. Gonna use all my "junk" wood to keep it going........which doesn't seem to be much.

[RSI]

That doesn't sound like the electric heater is working right. If they ran 220v to it then I would assume the heating element is supposed to be 220v. From what you described it is only running on 120v. But running a heater at half the voltage only uses 1/4 the wattage. How is the actual heating element wired?
It is drawing about 2800 watts from the numbers you posted. If it is supposed to be 220v it would draw over 10,000 watts.
What size wire and circuit breaker does it have feeding it?

[dirtryder]

That doesn't sound like the electric heater is working right. If they ran 220v to it then I would assume the heating element is supposed to be 220v. From what you described it is only running on 120v. But running a heater at half the voltage only uses 1/4 the wattage. How is the actual heating element wired?
It is drawing about 2800 watts from the numbers you posted. If it is supposed to be 220v it would draw over 10,000 watts.
What size wire and circuit breaker does it have feeding it?

I don't know the size of the wire feeding it....looks around #6 copper? It is fed from a 50 amp  ground fault breaker box mounted on my outside wall designed for hot tubs.  In the spa pack, there are 2 wires going to the heating element. One wire has 110v at the element lug all the time and one is 0 volts when tub is not calling for heat and 110volts when tub is calling for heat.  I was told that this is how they wire the elements so only 1 leg has to switch on and off for element to work. This is the wire that now runs to the on-off-on switch to energize transformer for wood or back to element for electric.  The readings were taken at the red and black wires leaving the ground fault breaker in the box. I don't know, I didn't have my glasses on.....maybe it was 2.41 amps and not 24.1? would that sound reasonable? I didn't have any additional (3)  jet pumps on during the readings. I'm guessing they all run off of the other leg?

[RSI]

I think there is something wrong with it. I would bet it is supposed to be around 45 amps on each leg of the 220v. If you put the volt meter between the 2 wires (red and black) at the GFI does it read ~220v?
If it is running on a 50 amp breaker it is very likely it is a 10KW heater. If working properly it will use 10 KWH every hour. ($1 per hour if you pay $0.10 per KWH)
10KW is 34,000 BTU

[dirtryder]

I think there is something wrong with it. I would bet it is supposed to be around 45 amps on each leg of the 220v. If you put the volt meter between the 2 wires (red and black) at the GFI does it read ~220v?
If it is running on a 50 amp breaker it is very likely it is a 10KW heater. If working properly it will use 10 KWH every hour. ($1 per hour if you pay $0.10 per KWH)
10KW is 34,000 BTU

I'll check but I'm sure it would read 220. 4 wires out of double breaker in house panel feeds outside box.  2 110volt, 1 common, 1 ground.  As far as the tub....it has been set @ 102 to 104  for 3 years and hasn't missed a beat. The past 2 summers I shut the boiler down, switched to "electric" and all has worked fine. Never popped a breaker, always up to temp. All pumps function all the time.  In fact, I did switch to electric last month for a week or two to do some revamping to boiler system so I had shut down the boiler.......worked like a charm.  I was just figuring on keeping boiler going this summer just..."cause"  Maybe I'll get my electrician to look at it.
Thanks

[RSI]

If it is keeping up to temperature then it must be working properly. Any chance the amp meter wasn't reading right? Are you using a clamp on meter? Can you put it on the wire at the heating element?

[dirtryder]

If it is keeping up to temperature then it must be working properly. Any chance the amp meter wasn't reading right? Are you using a clamp on meter? Can you put it on the wire at the heating element?

Yes I was using a clamp on meter. I can put it right on the wires but I'd have to move the steps and such to get to it. It's partially sunken into my deck.   One day I have nothing to do I'll do a better check.