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Author Topic: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD  (Read 2772 times)

bjp

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Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« on: May 06, 2019, 09:54:30 AM »

Hi all, new poster here.

A week from today, I have a Central Boiler Classic Edge 750 Titanium HD arriving for install here in zone 4.  I'm looking for any tips from experienced owners here about things to watch out for or be aware of during install that may not be obvious.

I'm replacing a Sequoyah Paradise E3400 that met an untimely end, already hauled away.  The CB will be going on top of the slab the Sequoyah used and the cheap drain tile open-cell wrapped underground pex lines are coming out and getting replaced with thermopex.  The pex lines will come in to the existing plate heat exchanger, unless it looks clogged up, to transfer heat to the rest of the hydronics (oil boiler, under floor and in-slab radiant, baseboards, and indirect hot water).  Planning to fill it up with treatment immediately, then water, and fire it up and send in all water tests.

Any install-time gotchas out there?  For example, once I bought this house with the Sequoyah I read that it would have dumped far less creosote into the damper and draft inducer if it had been initially tilted up a couple inches on the rear side.
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Roger2561

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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2019, 05:39:25 PM »

Hi all, new poster here.

A week from today, I have a Central Boiler Classic Edge 750 Titanium HD arriving for install here in zone 4.  I'm looking for any tips from experienced owners here about things to watch out for or be aware of during install that may not be obvious.

I'm replacing a Sequoyah Paradise E3400 that met an untimely end, already hauled away.  The CB will be going on top of the slab the Sequoyah used and the cheap drain tile open-cell wrapped underground pex lines are coming out and getting replaced with thermopex.  The pex lines will come in to the existing plate heat exchanger, unless it looks clogged up, to transfer heat to the rest of the hydronics (oil boiler, under floor and in-slab radiant, baseboards, and indirect hot water).  Planning to fill it up with treatment immediately, then water, and fire it up and send in all water tests.

Any install-time gotchas out there?  For example, once I bought this house with the Sequoyah I read that it would have dumped far less creosote into the damper and draft inducer if it had been initially tilted up a couple inches on the rear side.

bjp - I do not have the Edge 750, I have the Edge 550 but I believe their operation is essentially the same.  You made the smart move by removing the crappy wrap stuff and replacing it with Thermopex.  I've had the same thermopex in the ground for the past 8 winters, I lose around 2 degrees over the 100 foot run.  I run mine hot, around 190/195 due to having baseboard heat in my house.  As for install, keep it level.  Also, the manual will show examples of how to install your OWB for your application.  Do yourself a huge favor and read the manual until you understand what 750 needs.  The most important thing I can pass along is to be sure your wood is dry, probably no more than 25% moisture.  Put enough wood in the firebox for a 12 hour period, it will operate more efficiently that way.  The one thing you'll absolutely love is the wifi connection, it's great being able to monitor it from your cell phone or computer, wherever there is a wifi connection.  boilerman has the titanium 750 HD also.  I haven't seen him on here in awhile, be patient he will and he'll be happy to answer any questions you have.  Roger     
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bjp

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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 12:32:59 PM »

bjp - I do not have the Edge 750, I have the Edge 550 but I believe their operation is essentially the same.  You made the smart move by removing the crappy wrap stuff and replacing it with Thermopex.  I've had the same thermopex in the ground for the past 8 winters, I lose around 2 degrees over the 100 foot run.  I run mine hot, around 190/195 due to having baseboard heat in my house.  As for install, keep it level.  Also, the manual will show examples of how to install your OWB for your application.  Do yourself a huge favor and read the manual until you understand what 750 needs.  The most important thing I can pass along is to be sure your wood is dry, probably no more than 25% moisture.  Put enough wood in the firebox for a 12 hour period, it will operate more efficiently that way.  The one thing you'll absolutely love is the wifi connection, it's great being able to monitor it from your cell phone or computer, wherever there is a wifi connection.  boilerman has the titanium 750 HD also.  I haven't seen him on here in awhile, be patient he will and he'll be happy to answer any questions you have.  Roger   

Thank you for the tips, Roger!  It was an easy choice to remove the old wrapped pipe given that it has been leaking groundwater into the basement for about 6 months. I surprisingly had hardly any heat loss with the old pipe, at least until the pipe and wrap waterlogged.  Then it was all over. I've been watching a ton of videos on the 750 and I'm loving the idea of loading the firebox for a 12hr burn - the Sequoyah manual said essentially to load it up packed full every single time, a huge difference from the 1/4 - 1/3rd full fireboxes I'm seeing in videos from CB. Access to clean all the gritty parts is going to be great, too, after what I had before.

I'm going to focus hard on keeping wood dry.  My woodshed is slowly collapsing to the point snow blows in through the walls so I'm going to have to get that dealt with.
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Roger2561

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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 05:31:23 PM »

The one other thing I should have mentioned is, size does make a difference; the firewood pieces should not be too large.  I toss in pieces that are around 4 to 8 inches in diameter, smaller than 4 inches is okay but you don't want to go larger than 8 inches.  I meant to ask, does the Edge 750 have the titanium stainless steel firebox or is it the carbon steel firebox?  Roger 
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2019, 12:22:21 PM »

The one other thing I should have mentioned is, size does make a difference; the firewood pieces should not be too large.  I toss in pieces that are around 4 to 8 inches in diameter, smaller than 4 inches is okay but you don't want to go larger than 8 inches.  I meant to ask, does the Edge 750 have the titanium stainless steel firebox or is it the carbon steel firebox?  Roger

I won't be 100% positive until Monday when it actually arrives, but all the paperwork says 'titanium HD' so this should be the titanium stainless firebox and the dealer will have a problem if it isn't.  I'm probably more interested in the access doors than the stainless firebox since I don't have much experience with them yet.

That's much more thoroughly split wood than I used with the Sequoyah.  It'll make loading go more easily vs hefting some of the monsters I burned in that thing.
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 10:19:51 AM »

The smaller pieces allow for a quicker fire recovery after it's been idling for a bit plus it'll help cut down on the creosote build up.  I don't know if your old Sequoyah has it, but get familiar with the pulse feature on the 750.  If you're not familiar with it, it's used to help keep the coals from dieing during the idling time.  You can set the duration of how long it runs and how much time between pulses (max is 50 seconds).  I set my pulse to turn on for 50 seconds every 10 to 12 minutes.   
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2019, 02:37:56 PM »

Arrived today and confirmed Edge 750 Titanium with the stainless firebox, manufactured January 2019. My excavator guy didn't show so a bit delayed on getting it hooked up, but wow this thing looks good. Lots of reading to do, I'll get to know the pulse since that will be a new feature for me here.
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2019, 05:28:33 PM »

Arrived today and confirmed Edge 750 Titanium with the stainless firebox, manufactured January 2019. My excavator guy didn't show so a bit delayed on getting it hooked up, but wow this thing looks good. Lots of reading to do, I'll get to know the pulse since that will be a new feature for me here.

I was answering another topic when I saw this one.  I am wondering how your Edge 750 HD is running for you, if you've put fire to it yet?

Roger 
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 11:15:00 AM »

Arrived today and confirmed Edge 750 Titanium with the stainless firebox, manufactured January 2019. My excavator guy didn't show so a bit delayed on getting it hooked up, but wow this thing looks good. Lots of reading to do, I'll get to know the pulse since that will be a new feature for me here.

I was answering another topic when I saw this one.  I am wondering how your Edge 750 HD is running for you, if you've put fire to it yet?

Roger

No fire just yet, other than the one on initial fill when it was first installed, which all went fine and appeared to be super efficient on fuel.  It's 60F outside right now so I don't think I'll be burning until the beginning of November.
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2019, 09:01:29 AM »

So I fired up the 750HD yesterday.  All went fine on the cold start, adding heat load, and the first few cycles, but the fire went out overnight after maybe 4 cycles.  My home internet was also down so I unfortunately can't refer back to the firestar graphs and logged data to say exactly what happened, but my feeling is operator error and too little of a coal bed.  Checked on it and I have a fair chunk of charred wood in there with hardly any ash remaining at the bottom of the firebox. 

I'm going to file this one as operator error.  I went too quickly from tiny kindling to mid-size logs and should have had a lot more coals in there before stepping up, and/or I need to decrease my idle pulse time from the 30 minutes where it is currently set.  Now just waiting for the rain to stop so I can pull the charred wood out without soaking it and re-light this thing.  While it was running, it was running great.
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 10:46:41 AM »

So I fired up the 750HD yesterday.  All went fine on the cold start, adding heat load, and the first few cycles, but the fire went out overnight after maybe 4 cycles.  My home internet was also down so I unfortunately can't refer back to the firestar graphs and logged data to say exactly what happened, but my feeling is operator error and too little of a coal bed.  Checked on it and I have a fair chunk of charred wood in there with hardly any ash remaining at the bottom of the firebox. 

I'm going to file this one as operator error.  I went too quickly from tiny kindling to mid-size logs and should have had a lot more coals in there before stepping up, and/or I need to decrease my idle pulse time from the 30 minutes where it is currently set.  Now just waiting for the rain to stop so I can pull the charred wood out without soaking it and re-light this thing.  While it was running, it was running great.

bjp - I'd tend to lean to the lack of a coal bed too.  I suspect you're right regarding the pulse setting.  On my Classic Edge 550 HD I have it set to run for 50 seconds every 10 minutes.  I've never lost a fire with those settings.  Also, be sure to use smaller size pieces to get the coal bed built up.  It can take time to get it there.  Whenever I fire mine up for the season I always start early in the morning on a weekend so I have the day to monitor it with the wifi or a visual inspection.  Good luck.  Roger   
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2019, 08:18:49 AM »

bjp - I'd tend to lean to the lack of a coal bed too.  I suspect you're right regarding the pulse setting.  On my Classic Edge 550 HD I have it set to run for 50 seconds every 10 minutes.  I've never lost a fire with those settings.  Also, be sure to use smaller size pieces to get the coal bed built up.  It can take time to get it there.  Whenever I fire mine up for the season I always start early in the morning on a weekend so I have the day to monitor it with the wifi or a visual inspection.  Good luck.  Roger   

Thanks Roger!  My second attempt has gone much better.  After pulling out the charred wood left from the cold start, I threw in some kindling, got that going, and tossed the charred wood back in.  That gave me 10 hours of clock time, 2 hours of burn time, before getting down to coals, with reaction chamber temps getting up as high as 1453F, though usually topping out around 1250F.  I just checked it again 12 hours after my first "regular" load, and still quite a bit of charred wood in there but it has been working great.  It's not really cold enough here yet (30-40F until later this week) for a big heat load but everything appears to be working perfectly. 2h21m of burn time over the last 12 hours, pulse every 15 minutes (which I now think I can probably bump back to 30min). 

Takes about 15 minutes to heat up from 175F to 185F when the low limit triggers, then overshoots by zero to five degrees or so depending on how much load is being drawn.  It seems to hold heat very well with no draw, I've been sitting at 189F for 45min since the last cycle ran.  I don't fully trust my temperature gauges on the indoor side of the hot line, but based on how well the boiler holds temps I am pretty confident I don't have any meaningful heat loss in the underground pipes (80' ThermoPEX run about 7-8' deep).

I did manage to screw myself a bit when I patched up the concrete slab under the boiler by creating a channel that funneled water to the ThermoPEX line - that stuff will transmit water into your house if you allow enough to pour onto it, but a dam of silicone caulk around it held up to 3.5" of rain over Halloween and I didn't have any more water coming in until I fired up the boiler, the PEX expanded, and squeezed out the remaining few mL. A bit of a scare there as I spent all of last winter with gallons pouring into my basement from the old drain tile the prior owner installed with the original boiler, but it's all bone dry now and looking great.

Granted I only have 24 hours working with this thing but I am loving it.
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2019, 07:02:18 AM »

Time for my first big cleaning. Reaction chamber temperatures have been dropping quite a bit.  I was getting 1400-1600F the first several weeks, then for a few weeks it was peaking around 1200F, and now it has been having trouble reaching even 800F.  Cleaning the reaction chamber ash out helped the first time, it hasn't been helping since.  I let the fire go out overnight and the heating oil kicked on to replace it.  Yesterday I tried splitting a bunch of wood smaller than I had been using and that helped it to get up to 950F or so, but still not where it should be.

I figure I will start with the primary and secondary elbows, but I suspect I am going to need to remove the primary air channels and check those out too.  Or I've just allowed too thick a coal/ash bed to build up after over-reacting the wrong direction to having it go out on me a couple times due to small loads in shoulder seasons.  Heat exchanger tubes still look great, just a little fly ash in the chimney tee, but I am definitely getting a bit of crusty creosote buildup in the firebox near the primary outlets.  Not enough to cover the holes, but I don't know what is inside those channels yet.

If any of you have seen this specific behavior before I'd be interested if you know what fixed it most directly.

Those wire harnesses attached to the stepper motors are locked in good, may try just cleaning it without disconnecting them (after cutting power at the breaker).  Cold days coming up tomorrow.


EDITED TO ADD: I think it was just too much ash and coal piled up in the firebox.  The weather went downhill faster than expected so I didn't have time to do all the maintenance I wanted, but the secondary charge tube looked fine and so did the elbows, I did not make it to the primary air channels.  But I have it humming along above 1000F now on wood that is basically kindling, so it seems like the firebox cleaning was what I needed.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 12:49:53 PM by bjp »
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2019, 04:59:30 PM »

This is my cleaning schedule for my Titanium Classic Edge 550 HD;

Every 2 weeks I remove the ash build up from the reaction chamber.  I get maybe around 5 to 6 shovels full.  It's probably overkill to be cleaning it that often but I want to be sure the unit is not choking it.  I also take a few minutes to run the brush through the heat exchanger to get rid of any ash build up.  Takes a minute or 2 to brush it.  Be sure the coal isn't too deep either.  It needs a good bed around 3 to 4 inches deep but I wouldn't go much higher than that.  Make sure the primary air holes in the removable channels stay clear of creosote build up and ash too.  When my 550 was delivered a poker came with it that has a curved end to it, every 12 hours when I'm adding wood I use it to scrape the surface of the channels of anything that may have built up.  If your 750 is like my 550, there are air holes in the removable panel that's below the door opening inside the firebox.  The holes on my 550 are lower in this panel than those in the primary air channels along each side.  They can easily get blocked by too much coal.  Be sure they stay clear of coals, ash and creosote.  Don't be afraid to run the poker through the coal bed to even it out and loosen it up a bit.  Sometime maybe in mid February I'll do a complete cleaning.  Essentially I'll just remove the primary air channel to clear it of any creosote and then I'll remove the primary elbow, if any creosote is present I'll remove it.  I have never unplugged the harness from the stepper motors.  I hope these tips help a bit.  Roger       
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Re: Replacing Sequoyah E3400 with CB Classic Edge 750 HD
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2019, 11:19:10 AM »

Thank you Roger, this is a great guide!  I started out removing too much ash, I think, and had multiple cases of the fire going out overnight until I allowed more to accumulate.  I think I just went too far that direction and let it get too full.  I have definitely been running the hooked poker tool through the ash bed twice a day.  You are exactly right about the air holes in the panel just below the door, mine must have the same configuration as your 550 as they are indeed much lower than the ones on the side channels. I'm so impressed at how clean the heat exchangers in the rear have been staying.

No problems hitting 1300+F now after cleaning out the firebox.  I had misread the instructions and was thinking removing ash from there was the "complete firebox cleaning" procedure more reserved for the end of the season than as a during-use maintenance.  I won't make that mistake again.
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