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[RSI]

Bubble wrap? Did you buy the insulated pex or make it yourself?

[lugnut]

Bubble wrap? Did you buy the insulated pex or make it yourself?

I bought the insulated pex...but NOT the thermo-pex.  In other words it's not the solid insulation where the pex line is imbedded in the line.  Okay, it's not bubble wrapped it has the foil insulation and lots of it and it's even "between" the pex lines.

[RSI]

Is it blue foam?
It is most likely polyethylene foam which is what pipe insulation is made of.

[willieG]

lug, that sounds like my first underground insulation...it looked like pink house fiberglass insulation with a foil back on it..i had to wrap my own. i was told to wrap the feed line once then lay the return line beside it and wrap the two of them together until the insulation ran out (i think it was about 3 wraps on the hot and 2 wraps on the return.) worked well with very little heat loss until the
outer shell (4 inch PVC pipe with glued joints) got a hole in it and let water in. after that happened there was no insulation value. 

[Treewinder]

Jim,

The blower is mounted horizontal because there is no room to mount it vertically because of the water line directly above it.  Look at the photos either on this thread some where or over on the thread titles Shaver Auto Damper.

Jerry
[/quote]

I checked the photo, looks like you can rotate to the right 90 degrees and be vertical.  Is there something else in the way?

Ed

[lugnut]

Is it blue foam?
It is most likely polyethylene foam which is what pipe insulation is made of.

No sir...no foam here.  Foil insulated wrap.  Numerous wrap around both pex lines as well as in between.  This stuff was not cheap, as most of you prolly know.  I originally wanted the "thermopex" or what ever it's really called, but not at $12.00 a foot!

Lugnut   

[lugnut]

lug, that sounds like my first underground insulation...it looked like pink house fiberglass insulation with a foil back on it..i had to wrap my own. i was told to wrap the feed line once then lay the return line beside it and wrap the two of them together until the insulation ran out (i think it was about 3 wraps on the hot and 2 wraps on the return.) worked well with very little heat loss until the
outer shell (4 inch PVC pipe with glued joints) got a hole in it and let water in. after that happened there was no insulation value.

Willie,

Ya know, I just thought of something...is this your name ?  I'm going to feel like a real dweeb if I've been calling you someone you are not.  Anyway,  this underground insulation is foil wrapped several times around each pex line as well as inbetween the two pex lines.  Now, I have noticed that the ground where my line is buried from the OWB to the rear of the house is damp.  I have attributed this to the fact that the ground surrounding is frozen and the dampness is dues to the area being very warm,.  My lines are only down 18" - 24".  And the distance from the OWB to the rear of the house is a mere 115'.

Lugnnut

[RSI]

There has to be something besides the foil. It is usually 3/16" or 1/4" thick layers of foam with foil on it. Did you get it from Shaver?

[lugnut]

There has to be something besides the foil. It is usually 3/16" or 1/4" thick layers of foam with foil on it. Did you get it from Shaver?

YES...you are correct!!  I forgot......had a brain fart I suppose.  Yes, there IS foam on the pex line along with the foil wrap.  Thank you !  Been using too many brain calories as of late.   

NO...I did NOT purchase this underground pex from Shaver.......had I done such a foolish thing, we would NOT be having this conversation because I'd still be waiting for it.   

[lugnut]

Jim,

The blower is mounted horizontal because there is no room to mount it vertically because of the water line directly above it.  Look at the photos either on this thread some where or over on the thread titles Shaver Auto Damper.

Jerry

 
I checked the photo, looks like you can rotate to the right 90 degrees and be vertical.  Is there something else in the way?

Ed
[/quote]

Jim,

Here in lies the problem...I kept thinking, "there IS a reason that I cannot flip that blower," and then I remembered...told you I've been burning way too many brain calories...if you go look at the photo of my auto damper, you'll see that large contraption of steel plate that Shaver mounted the solenoid on.  This coupled with the insulated foam wrap I have on the line above where the blower sits, IS the issue.  The photograph you are looking at has the smaller blower (50 cfm) on it.  That's why there appears to be lots of room.  I certainly wish I did have that room.  I suppose I will have to remove the foam, then "maybe" drain the tank down below the top inlet of the pump, then pull off the 90 degree fitting and buy a nipple to bring that fitting out about 3-4"..closer to the door, but NOT up against the door.  This I do believe this SHOULD give me the room I need to flip that blower.  Have to wait until after Christmas before I can play with the furnace....doing darn Christmas lights now.  Grrrr

Lugnut 

[woodman]

Now, I have noticed that the ground where my line is buried from the OWB to the rear of the house is damp. 

Lugnnut
[/quote]

I hate to say it but I think you have just found where your wood is going. Check your heat loss between the boiler and house. 3-4 degrees doesn't sound like a lot but is HUGE. More than 5 and your going to be in trouble when we get some real winter weather.

[Treewinder]

Jerry,
This is how mine is, you can see the gate closes pretty tight, the plastic tubing is ridged enough to force the gate closed.  Definetly sounds as though your losing water temp.

Ed

[lugnut]

Now, I have noticed that the ground where my line is buried from the OWB to the rear of the house is damp. 

Lugnnut

I hate to say it but I think you have just found where your wood is going. Check your heat loss between the boiler and house. 3-4 degrees doesn't sound like a lot but is HUGE. More than 5 and your going to be in trouble when we get some real winter weather.
[/quote]

So in essence what you are saying is that my line is not deep enough into the ground?  I've read numerous posts on here as well as the arbonist site that read one does not need to put the line down any further than 2'.  When others have said to bury it below frost line, what is the frost line?  In some areas it is 4', in other area it is deeper or shallower.

Okay, so if I have to dig the pex line up again come spring....anyone see any problem with tying new pex in to the existing line?  this stuff was expensive and I don't fathom the idea of going out and spending $1200.00 again for another 200' of line.

Lugnut

[woodman]

Now, I have noticed that the ground where my line is buried from the OWB to the rear of the house is damp. 

Lugnnut

I hate to say it but I think you have just found where your wood is going. Check your heat loss between the boiler and house. 3-4 degrees doesn't sound like a lot but is HUGE. More than 5 and your going to be in trouble when we get some real winter weather.

So in essence what you are saying is that my line is not deep enough into the ground?  I've read numerous posts on here as well as the arbonist site that read one does not need to put the line down any further than 2'.  When others have said to bury it below frost line, what is the frost line?  In some areas it is 4', in other area it is deeper or shallower.

Okay, so if I have to dig the pex line up again come spring....anyone see any problem with tying new pex in to the existing line?  this stuff was expensive and I don't fathom the idea of going out and spending $1200.00 again for another 200' of line.

Lugnut
[/quote]

If you have good insulation it doesn't matter how deep or shallow it is. Put it in deep and you have a good chance of getting into the water table. Bury it shallow and it may be buried at frost depth. If you are losing heat to the ground why would you put new pex in the existing line? The problem is the lack of insulation not the pex lines. You need to start by getting some real numbers on your heat loss (if any) to the ground. Then you can at least rule things out or start addressing them. If the problem is in the lines you have 3 options 1.Plan on using a crap ton of wood. 2.Spend the money on logstor. 3.Somehow dig up your lines and have them spray foamed with closed cell urethane.     

[Treewinder]

Jerry,

It may not be your underground pex, there are a few thing also to rule out. But as woodman states it is important to verify temps leaving OWB and temp entering house...

 Let's look at my previous post and your answers.


Insulation on water box..........................How ever it was insulated at the "factory" is the way it is insulated now.
Insulation on underground pex..............foiled insulated wrap as is the norm for the underground pex lines.
Distance from OWB to house..................115 from OWB to the house.
Major air leak to fire box..........................NO leaks that I can find.  Rear top plate has silicone arond all the gaps.
Aquastat set too low...............................No  aquastat...just the standard DHW t-stat..temp on that stat set at 150*
Square feet heated greater than output....Pro Series 250....square footage of house 3400"


The one thing that stands out is that you say you have no aquastat on the OWB?.  What triggers your blower to come on?