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[lugnut]

Now, I have noticed that the ground where my line is buried from the OWB to the rear of the house is damp. 

Lugnnut

I hate to say it but I think you have just found where your wood is going. Check your heat loss between the boiler and house. 3-4 degrees doesn't sound like a lot but is HUGE. More than 5 and your going to be in trouble when we get some real winter weather.
[/quote]

Have a friend coming over after Christmas with a infrared gun to check temps.  Yeah, well the name I typed might not be what I'm thinking...but you guys know.  So i can check and see what the temp diff is between the oWB and house.

Lug

[RSI]

The temperature drop to the house doesn't mean much unless you know how many GPM are flowing through it.

[lugnut]

Jerry,

It may not be your underground pex, there are a few thing also to rule out. But as woodman states it is important to verify temps leaving OWB and temp entering house...

 Let's look at my previous post and your answers.


Insulation on water box..........................How ever it was insulated at the "factory" is the way it is insulated now.
Insulation on underground pex..............foiled insulated wrap as is the norm for the underground pex lines.
Distance from OWB to house..................115 from OWB to the house.
Major air leak to fire box..........................NO leaks that I can find.  Rear top plate has silicone around all the gaps.
Aquastat set too low...............................No  aquastat...just the standard DHW t-stat..temp on that stat set at 150*
Square feet heated greater than output....Pro Series 250....square footage of house 3400"


The one thing that stands out is that you say you have no aquastat on the OWB?.  What triggers your blower to come on?

Ed,

I have a t-stat on the rear of the furnace.  When I read "aquastat" I think of the "brand name" of aquastat made by Honeywell.  Sorry.  I have the factory standard store bought t-stat on the furnace.  It goes from 120 up to 180.  I had it set at 150 for a long time and a friend today suggested I set it down to 140, which I did.

I plan in installing the Rancho sometime this weekend.

Jerry

[willieG]

[
Ya know, I just thought of something...is this your name ?  I'm going to feel like a real dweeb if I've been calling you someone you are not.  Anyway,  this underground insulation is foil wrapped several times around each pex line as well as inbetween the two pex lines.  Now, I have noticed that the ground where my line is buried from the OWB to the rear of the house is damp.  I have attributed this to the fact that the ground surrounding is frozen and the dampness is dues to the area being very warm,.  My lines are only down 18" - 24".  And the distance from the OWB to the rear of the house is a mere 115'.

Lugnnut
[/quote]

yes that is my name and burying your pipe deeper will not effect your heat loss too much. however, if your pex lines come into contact with water (water gets through your insulation to the pipes) you will have tremedous heat loss. i believe i have read that single fin tube rads will give off about 40 btu per foot per hour in your home and they are surrouned by air. we know that water to water exchangers  exchange heat faster than water to air but lets say the are the same. if your undergrounds lines are wet then we can say that your underground lines are giving up at least 40 btu per foot per hour (likley more) for a total of at least 4600 btu per hour (that would heat a 10' x 10' room) the depth of yoru pipes is not nearly as important as keeping them insulated and DRY

it is my opinion that your 12$ a foot for thermopex lines would be a good investment but that is just my opinion. maybe in five or six years i will feel different as i am only in my second year with it but i have experienced the other type i described earlier and it failed miserably.

good luck with your project

[Treewinder]

"I have the factory standard store bought t-stat on the furnace.  It goes from 120 up to 180.  I had it set at 150 for a long time and a friend today suggested I set it down to 140, which I did."


Jerry,

I would not set it below 170,   if your setting at 140 and your losing any amount of btus in the pex or elsewhere, the house will eat thatup quickly, the water can not keep up and will cycle your blower more often trying to maintain.

[lugnut]

"I have the factory standard store bought t-stat on the furnace.  It goes from 120 up to 180.  I had it set at 150 for a long time and a friend today suggested I set it down to 140, which I did."


Jerry,

I would not set it below 170,   if your setting at 140 and your losing any amount of btus in the pex or elsewhere, the house will eat thatup quickly, the water can not keep up and will cycle your blower more often trying to maintain.

Ed,

Thank  you .  This is one of the things I've been wondering about.  I've been playing with that goofy t-stat since back in October.  Some say 140; some say 150; some say sell the OWB (tempted sometimes but NOT) .  Okay so on my way out today I will turn it up to 170.

You know, this SHOULD have been a no brainer as I was reading everyone's comments on their settings for the Rancos or Honeywell Aqua-stats...when folks are saying they have them set for on @165 and OFF @ 170-75.

Thanks for the input Ed.

Willie...........egarding the Thermopex.....I just didn't have that kind of money at the time and in my situation I needed to make a couple sharp bends either getting into the rear of the OWB or into the rear of my house and that stuff just does NOT bend.

The heat is my house is being maintained.  The temperature in my house has been at 73* 24 hrs a day and I have hot water in my DWH...it's just that I would love to slow down the usage of wood.  Supposed to warm up this weekend (upper 30s) and I will see about hooking up the Ranco.

Hey guys, I "really" do mean this...to all of you, I really do appreciate all the advice and input you've given me.  Means a great deal to someone who has never owned an "outside" wood burner.  I had a wood burner in my shop, but that was long ago and that heat from that unit stayed right in the shop.  This other thing is a whole new ball game for me...but I feel we're reaching home plate, albeit a little on the slow side, but that's fine too.

Lugnut
aka: Jerry

[Ridgekid]

lugnut-

One thing I have noticed is a lower setting on the thermostat conserves wood. Like you, we like 73*    Yet, we turn it down at night. We don't get as many burns= wood consumption. If you can wean yourself to lower indoor temps you'll probably see lower wood consumption.

Just my .02

[lugnut]

lugnut-

One thing I have noticed is a lower setting on the thermostat conserves wood. Like you, we like 73*    Yet, we turn it down at night. We don't get as many burns= wood consumption. If you can wean yourself to lower indoor temps you'll probably see lower wood consumption.

Just my .02

Kid,

See this is why I like this website so much!!!  I'm telling you, I spend more time over here and the Arbonist site than I do at the national t-bucket alliance website.  This again SHOULD have been a no brainer for me, because when I was using nat gas, we would turn the t-stat down at night and again during the day to conserve energy and so we wouldn't have a high gas bill.  One more item that I'm going to try now. 

1) set the t-stat on the furnace to 170*

2) dial down the house t-stat to 68 or so at night and during the day

3) Install that darn Ranco

Hey Ridgekid....thanks for spending that .02 on me.  It IS appreciated.

Lugnut
aka: Jerry

[woodman]

Sometimes its not good to get advise from too many "experts" because they will start contradicting themselves and leave you worse than where you started, but I will add to the confusion. It has been my experience with my house it has been better to adjust the themostat only 2 degrees from where you want it. I have a pretty large area that takes a while to heat up and cool down. I have a progamable thermostat for the house and I use to set it back to 68 at night then 73 during the day. It would take some time to come up 5 degrees, especially if the boiler had been idling most of the night and the water temp was down close to the low limit temp. I have found the house to be more comfortable and the boiler to be more effecient only backing it down to 71 at night. Try it both ways and see which works best for your set up. This is the 5th year for me and I am still learning little things that seem to help MY system work better. None of this is complicated by itself but start throwing everything together, add a problem or 2 that you are not even aware of, and it can be very frustrating to say the least. Hang in there! You will eventually get the bugs worked out and you will be more comfortable than ever using wood for heat. 

[Ridgekid]

I hope the "experts" comment wasn't directed at me. because I'm no where near that status. I am however a quick learner, and with all my "tools" I have used and created,  have a good record of how MY OWF is operating. It is my sincere hope that my efforts are helping somebody, no matter what OWF they own.

Just an added note, since I did not mention it above, our low thermostat set point is 70* at night. Our highest, in the evening before bed is about 74*. Most of the time the heat won't even come back on until the morning when I start raising it again, about 2* at a time.  I do want to get a programmable thermostat, but am still finding it difficult to find the right one. (To work with a heat pump) But that's on another post/topic.

[woodman]

I hope the "experts" comment wasn't directed at me. because I'm no where near that status. I am however a quick learner, and with all my "tools" I have used and created,  have a good record of how MY OWF is operating. It is my sincere hope that my efforts are helping somebody, no matter what OWF they own.

Just an added note, since I did not mention it above, our low thermostat set point is 70* at night. Our highest, in the evening before bed is about 74*. Most of the time the heat won't even come back on until the morning when I start raising it again, about 2* at a time.  I do want to get a programmable thermostat, but am still finding it difficult to find the right one. (To work with a heat pump) But that's on another post/topic.

No that was not directed at you at all. I was kind of poking fun at myself to be honest. My dad use to tell me the definition of a expert was anyone who lived more than 30 miles away. I was just trying to explain that what works well for one may not work the same for the other yet both are correct.

[jimr]

lugnut..... is this OWB your first experience at burning wood to heat your house?  these things do seem to like to consume wood and if you are new to burning ,,,,,well it might seem like a lot of wood. i have been burning since 9/7-till now have burnt 4&1/2 cords. my lines are homemade also and with no draw for heat i loose about 1* in around 300 ft round trip, buried at 2ft and it will melt snow . you can probably bury the same lines deeper and not melt snow but heat loss would be the same .
 if my heat loss ever increases i will re dig the 65 ft that is buried an sleeve that section to protect against dampness.

[willieG]

i have been burning since 9/7-till now have burnt 4&1/2 cords. my lines are homemade also and with no draw for heat i loose about 1* in around 300 ft round trip, buried at 2ft and it will melt snow . you can probably bury the same lines deeper and not melt snow but heat loss would be the same .
 if my heat loss ever increases i will re dig the 65 ft that is buried an sleeve that section to protect against dampness.

it takes on average about 100 btu per hour per foot to keep 1 square foot of outdoor cement walkway melted off in the winter (depending on the air temp it can keep up to 1 to 1 1/2 inches of snow per hour.  if your trench is 65 feet long and being buried 2 feet deep you are likley losing somwhere around that (or more because of the depth)

[Bull]

You gave me an idea Willie, I will pour a sidewalk to my owb on top of my water lines and not have to shovel it off. LOL

[willieG]

You gave me an idea Willie, I will pour a sidewalk to my owb on top of my water lines and not have to shovel it off. LOL

bull when i had my old water logged pipes my "walkway" was 2 feet wide and 250 feet long. i refused to believe when one outdoor salesman told me i was likley losing 4 cords of wood a year. i thought, sure you just want to sell me that expensive pipe..well i finally bit the bullet and bought it and last year (the first year  i had it) i did save 4 cord!!

and last  year i did need boots to walk through the snow to get to the stove no snow this year yet